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I just happen to know both of these men, and to call them thugs is only your opinion. Duda and I coached a pop warner football team. And Jamie is a hard working family man. Who are you to put a label on someone you have never met?

Joe Keith

Who are you to stereotype Hells Angels? you think you know by what you hear but have you ever met any?? when my mother was sick and dying they held benefits for me just so me and my father could get by and pay the bills because he had to take time off of work. Jamie Costin personally was there for us. ive never known them to be anything but good friends.so before you go drawing negative conclusions, be aware that the hells angels do alot of goods things for alot of causes that you dont hear about. all you ever publicly hear about is the bad things.


I have no idea whether the Hells Angels has done a few good things. I don't care. It is a violent criminal enterprise. Its members are thugs, rapists, murderers, drug dealers, and thieves. There are no innocent Hells Angels. Yes, I've met some.

Remember Ted Bundy. Even a serial killer can come off as a nice guy.


Thats like saying the Kennedys are a bunch of nice guys. That family has a long history of running booze,murdering,rapists. But because they don't ride bikes and have a patch on thier backs those problems go away without anyone calling a spade a spade.......COME ON GET REAL!!


you know I find this whole conversation rather interesting. i don't think that anyone who knows what HA is all about would deny the fact that they do good, but that doesn't make them saints. the mob, the mafia, the family...all throughout history has been known for good things they do to be sure it would be difficult to have such a highly organised network of crime with so many loyalists without doing good, but honestly i don't think that is the real question. the real question is do those good things exonerate the entire group from being what it is...and to be sure this isn't so much about any other group either while the kennedy's have a criminal history and contacts, hells angels have prospects and is an actual crime syndicate. the people who can form a benefit concert has such malable ethics that they can murder, deal drugs, run rackets and you have to ask yourself are these the people we want running the country. i am not so niave as to think that they are the only ones ever to commit crimes and have such a shining public face politicians are never saints but personally i don't condone them being in office either...fact is hells angels while they can offer some publicity stunts to help those they want will do everything disgraceful and heinous as well...it is shameful and disgusting...from their bylaws that run their lives to their public displays of situational philanthropy...i welcome the day law enforcement puts everyone single one of them away...


Amen to Joan.


john rowland was on the stete payroll in conn. and will be receiving a pension also,i know he was only the governor,but a felon is a felon,selective enforcement of laws and regulations is what seperates the haves from the have nots,,how long have you been living in this country?

Carpundit replies: Hey, genius, you disproved your own point. Rowland is going to prison. I said the Hells Angels are criminals - not the ONLY criminals.


who says he's going to prison,and if he does it wont be a real prison,not all HELLS ANGELS are criminals,i'd be hard pressed to say the same about politicians,

Carpundit replies: Paul, all Hells Angels are criminals or criminals-in-training. Wake up to it.


i don't agree,but i do think thats true of politicians,and the biggest criminal enterprise in the u.s. where members break laws and loot,and kill on a regular basis is the u.s. senate and house,backed up by their individual state charters,


All of this is indeed very interesting...this country has priests and teachers molesting children...maybe ALL priests and teachers should be locked up too. Why is it that "the public" doesn't judge these groups as a whole? Because most of you cannot think for yourselves and if it's in print-you believe it. It is more scary to think that this type of non-thinking people ARE running our country as we speak!


So alot of people think the Hells Angels are real bad.maybe some are what makes people think they all are.Take the Boozefighters for example. what they did in hollister. They started the outlaw out look on motor cycle clubs. Do you think they are all bad because they ride a motorcycle. The papers did a injustice to motor cycle clubs. Like the life magazine artical in 1947 & on the front page was a guy on a motorcyle who was a local drunk not a biker at all. So i guess the Boozefughters are bad asses just like the hells angels. I don't think either of both cubs are. I know a few hells angels i have met. Seem like nice guys to me.Maybe the US govt. should run business like a motorcycle club. They would be alot better off by the way the boozefighters are around to this day


I have never had to avoid the Hells Angels. They used to come in the South Side in Lawrence MA. They seem to not get messed up and mind there own unless provoked. There like the rest of the people in the world trying to get by in a country that is selling it's self out to anyone who waves a fist full of dollars. I look at the job market and why people have to do anything they can to turna buck. We used to feel secure and have good oppitunity here but that is dwindling over to out of country people. The life we have chosen is the one we have to to exist on earth.


I am not an HA, Outlaw, Bandito or 1%er, but I am a biker, and I ride with outlaw clubs from time to time by invitation.
I have NEVER had a problem with any of them because I treat them with the respect that they deserve as men. I don't give them an attitude...I'm just nice, and I get along just fine.
Sure, there are those in those groups that have criminal activities, but there are just as many, if not more, that are law-abiding, decent men with jobs, families, etc.
To lump them all into a "criminal" mold is wrong. I'd stand side-by-side with most of them any day.

Reality Check

As stated above..."fact is hells angels while they can offer some publicity stunts to help those they want will do everything disgraceful and heinous as well...it is shameful and disgusting...from their bylaws that run their lives to their public displays of situational philanthropy...i welcome the day law enforcement puts everyone single one of them away..."

First and foremost all statements made by you with regard to Hells Angels are your own opinions that you have devised based on things that you have read as well as hear say both of which go hand and hand with a one track / closed minded person. A common practice taught to children that are brought up well is that, every individual deserves a chance (kind of like innocent until proven guilty), that no one should be pre-judged and in the event of judgement every person should be judged individually. One is free to have his/her judgement and opinions but until you have encountered an individual(s),(whether it be a Hells Angel or anyone else) personally and learned things for yourself pre-judgements and negative opinions should be kept on reserve.

"Death Before Dishonor" Do these words mean anything to any of you? This is just an example of something/words/bylaws that Hells Angels have been known to live by(i.e. words can be found on their Support Gear) or as you would say, "...run their lives...". As you state above "...it is shameful and disgusting...from their bylaws that run their lives..." What "is shameful and disgusting" is that these are not words/bylaws that you live by b/c if they were than I guess you would be refering to yourself as "shameful and disgusting" which just wouldn't be right.

Who are any of you IGNORAMUSES to state that ALL Hells Angels are thugs, rapists, murderers, drug dealers, thieves, criminals or criminals in training and that there are no innocent ones?
Those are VERY STRONG LABELS and ACCUSATIONS none of which were factually backed up by any of you which is WRONG and a DISGRACE.

No individual in this world is exempt, there are some who do good, some who do bad and some who do good and bad. It is very rare that we hear of people doing good it is usually the bad that we hear about unless it involves a child or the elderly.

It is mindblowing that any individual could think/believe that a highly qualified individual with no prior record who is a member of a motorcycle club should not be allowed to do a job. Seriously, are you alright? Get a grip on reality, it is 2006 not 1956. Hmm, last I knew being nor exhibiting predjudice is politically correct?

Whether or not you have forgotten this or perhaps you were not aware, Hells Angels are people too, just like me and you, they all have/had mom's & dad's, some have brothers and sisters, many have girlfriends, and believe it or not many have wives and children.

I can say these things as a friend to several members of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club. I have NEVER met a Hells Angel that I didn't like or felt threatened by. I have at all times been treated with and have seen Hells Angels exhibit the utmost respect and kindness to all; Treat others as you would like to be treated.

Unfortunately this world is filled with dishonorable people. If there were a handful of people for each Hells Angel Worldwide this world and the means by which we live would be a much better place. It is loss to anyone and everyone who exhibits ignorance towards the Hells Angels as you may never really get experience what a man of his word really is.


I totally agree with Reality Check posted 01/04/06. If more "citizens" practiced the respect and maintained the integrity of any Angel I have met the world would be a much better place. Seems to me that some of those who have problems w/ the Red & White have problems with alot of things. Also seems to me that The Red & White pull the covers on alot of the bull propaganda started by those double talking establishment figures, (ie. polititians, and law dogs). It is no wonder that exposing a polititian or some sheriff as nothing but a whore for some corporation or a political action group gets those exposed pissed off. with that I go back to the first sentance written here. Vance


First of all anyone who says "all of them" referring to anyone, are the people we should be most afraid of. Anyone who can characterize an entire group of people based on opinion alone are the same people that run this country into the ground. The same people who stay sheltered and locked away in their little picture perfect (or so they think) world away from all the "heathens" and the real world. Life sucks sometimes, sometimes people are bad, sometimes people are good. People are not all programmed to be the same. There was a fight last night at the local elks lodge, some one lost and eye. One of the elks members was arrested on site for possession of a controlled substance. Those damn elks members should all be locked up, beer drinking criminals right... They all hang out together, wear the same jackets, go bowling and fishing together, drink together and sometimes they even break the law together. We should lock em' all up.... right... lock everyone up that we read about in the news, round them all up together kinda like the haulecast (that should piss a lot of you off huh).

Death Before Dishonor is what I teach my child everyday and what this country was founded on. It is a basic fundamental that used to keep this country alive and strong. I am not an HA but I am a biker and I know some that are great and some that are not. I know engineers and CEO's that are great and some that are criminals. That doesn't mean all CEO's and Engineers are criminals and those associated are criminals in training. Sure the HA's have their own code of ethics, so does every corporation American and every race and religion.

Further more to go back to the beginning of this discussion and add to what fuels this negative stereotype.... I am good friends with 2 people that were there the night the altercation happened with the HA and the "innocent off-duty cop". Well guess what he wasn't sucker punched and he wasn't just sitting there eating a sandwich like the fine law enforcement and press want all of us in the dark to think. A typical bar room altercation happened between two men one happened to be an HA and the other happened to be an off duty cop. End of story! If it was a truck driver and a carpenter the cops probably wouldn't have even shown up.

Unless you personally have had interactions with any group of people and/or personally been affected (and your local late breaking live news coverage doesn't count) then you have no ground to stand on and no place to judge anyone but yourself. As you talk on the phone while drinking a coffee and smoking a cigarette or doing your make-up at 70mph on the highway and cut off a biker (of any kind) or someone in a car/truck and they get pissed off.... You of coarse will immediately lump them into some negative group of people to justify yourself. For get the fact that you caused the problem. So OK you don't like Death Before Dishonor or having pride in yourself, your brothers, your fellow man (and woman, wouldn't want to offend anyone now), well then you should probably leave this country and live somewhere that isn't so proud.

If you look around you and everyone is wrong or bad... take a good look at yourself.... most times its you!



Take a couple deep breaths. I'll hit some high points: No, the Elks are not all bad. But the Elks are not an organized, national, criminal conspiracy with high-paid mob lawyers on retainer.

Death Before Dishonor is a nice creed for soldiers. It sucks for children. But I'm sure you're a great dad anyway.

I didn't say all Harley riders are criminal assholes. They're almost all assholes, for sure, but not criminals. Angels, on the other hand, are almost all criminals too. How do think they get those colors? By writing a dues check?

And that wasn't a bar fight. It was a beat down.

I fail to understand why so many of you are defending the Angels in this thread. HA is not a bunch of guys who like to ride obnoxious bikes. It's an organized criminal gang.



I stumbled on this website by accident and started reading it... thought I'd put my speck of sense up.

HA is a "mafia" and so is Congress and the Knights of Columbus and some local law enforcement entities and probably some local minor baseball leagues near you! LOL!

If the government does not stop singling out "bikers with patches" pretty soon they will not know who they are so easily and then what? Are the ignorant scared citizens gonna ask everyone to stop riding motorcycles? There is already legislation on the table about not associating in a group of three or more and that is CLEARLY a VIOLATION of my freedom.

When are people going to stop living in fear? When are people going to own up to their mistakes and take their "beat down"?

My (yes, I said my) problem with any "group" is their lack of responsiblity for their group and their unquestionable "bullying".

If a postman shoots 20 people in a post office you can sue the US Postal Service. If a "Bandit" shoots 8 people you can't sue the Bandidos...why? F E A R And here ladies and gentlemen is the difference.

I think that if anyone wants to live by and die by the sword then they should be seperated from people who do not. America already has rules and laws and if you don't like them you should spend your time changing them or accepting them, or going somewhere else. Costing the government thousands of dollars to "regulate" or "govern" OUT OF CONTROL groups is an outrage ALL BY ITSELF.

Yes this is supposed to be a free country but if you choose to be a part of any group then it is each members responsibility to govern and take responsibilty for each other. I have heard (first hand) clubs talking about other clubs and saying things like "...yeah their fu*ked up but they're our brothers first." What kind of crap is that? Hold your brothers and sisters accountable. If they are wrong, say so, and don't allow them to attempt or accomplish further embarrassment or humiliation to your group or keep them in your world and out of everyone elses.

NOONE the right to tell anyone what they can, can not do, say, or wear so long as they are not actually hurting anyone else... that goes for the government, the "patch holders", and anyone else. THAT IS FREEDOM. And just because you don't like what I wear, do, or say doesn't give you the right to persecute me. Hell I don't like a lot of things but that doesn't give me a right to destroy it. Kind of like the ignorant Mexican community waving the Mexican flag in an American protest....HELLLLLLO, you are in A M E R I C A conducting an A M E R I C A N protest, this is not or will be soon Mexico. But yet I can't go grab their flag and burn it, or can I?

Stop singling groups out and just accept the fact that our civilization is doomed unless EVERYONE starts looking around at the big picture and actually do something about it. Money is what is ruling our world and destroying any kind of worthy values, not the bikers. The harsh reality is that it has been my experience that bikers have some better values than other groups... Like what about the Los Angeles Police Department?

I say we should ALL buy motorcycles and force the all the oil companies to drop their prices and shut down a few big businesses. Big business is who is in control of this country (and um, some bikers figured this out) and for the most part Bike Clubs are the LEAST of our worries.

Get a Clue or Shut up! :p And that my friends was my speck worth.


Obviously, "Mal" is off his meds.

tom mahoney

minding his own business? half the cops in lynn are also the biggest criminals!!!!!!!!!find out the whole story and you will have different headlines and conclusions!!!!!!!!!! GO SALEM

CP comments: The quality of policing in Lynn is irrelevant to the question of whether the HA are criminals.


Wow. Any talk of the HA sure results in emotional responses, doesn't it? But, if they were as "bad" as a few folks here have stated they are, do you think they would really be so stupid as to call them out in a public forum? Really, now. Besides, any member of any MC couldn’t give a fiddlers fart about any citizens opinion of them. That's what clubs are for. An opportunity for individuals to live outside the constraints of finite societal expectation. That said, seems to me anyone bothering to put a negative opinion of an MC out there is doing so merely to hear themselves talk. A little bit of tearing down what you envy in order to make yourself a little taller.

CP replies: Zeke, you don't know what you're talking about. You're defending outlaws and thugs. Envy? They should all be in prison. It's not envy, it's loathing.


I am not a HA but I am a biker and grew up around the hells angels,the mob and everyday Joe's and its not the crew or a chapter that's bad its usually individauls in the crew or chapter that have their own agenda. Please dont you ever forget the HA's and the mob are connected whether you believe it or not. As for the issue with Jamie Costin and this off duty police office at the Buchanan cafe is concerned, I would fair to say that Jamie probably did the cop a favor and just beat the hell out of him before somebody else got a hold of this so called innocent victim Skip Coleman.

air man

Hey CP
First of all who are you to say most Harley riders are assholes, what gives you the right. I know hundreds of bikers,99% are hard working men in corptate or the labor force. WHAT BECAUSE WE WON'T TAKE ANY CRAP FROM ANYONE,INCLUDING LITTLE WHIMPS LIKEYOU {CP}. That doesent mean we are ASSHOLES, it means your just a whimp that hides behind a pen & paper.Most bikers were raised not to be whimps & to TUFF IT OUT unlike you CP. I know someone who was @ the bar &you need to get your story strait, the inocent cop was not as inocent as you reported.I dare you to walk up to a biker & say what you wrote to his face, I'd bet you would wake up on your back spitting out your chicklets onto the payment. Now that doesn't mean we are assholes,that means we won't take flack from a little pen pushing pussy like you.If the HA'S are such a a bunch of crooks, you had better step up to the plate & take a swing @ laywers, cops, doctors. Oh& what about the Free Masons they have been linked to everthing from fixing political races to murder, by pen pushers like you. That does'ent mean it's true, check your facts Zippy!!!!!

CP Replies: Obviously, you're an idiot. One point, though: I didn't say that all Harley riders are assholes. I may have said all Hells Angels are assholes. Which they are, and many of them criminals. It's a criminal gang. As a whole, it runs drugs, abuses women, and commits violence. Oh, and go fuck yourself.

John Silva Biker South Side

I have met HA'S in the South Side, Lawrence, MA. I have been treated as a friend by them. I respect there ways and have been on runs and have eaten with them. I have never seen them bother anyone and keep to there own company. There is good and bad in everyone. To label indivualls as one of them is disgusting. It must be a great feeling to hide behind words and rip people you don't know apart. We have Police that have been convicted of selling drugs does that mean the Lawrence Police Department goes to there morning meeting picks up drugs from raids and spends the day selling them? Of course this is silly but that's what is being said here. There are many HA'S with great jobs and worked there butts off to get them. Lets start treating people like human being's and see how fast that feeling is returned in spades. Treat people like you would want to be treated and the country would be a much nicer place to live in. We are all people living in the same country the sooner we we treat our brothers and sisters with the respect we want the better off we all will be. Hells Angels is a privite club with it's own members. There are many privite cubs in the Greater Lowell Lawrence area. Combination club, Son's of Italy, Portuguesse Club Masons, and on and on and many Motorcycle Clubs where you also pay dues to be a member such as the Chieftains, Vietnam Vets, Red Devels. These are a few clubs and there are thousands of clubs are there members all drug dealers? This is not fair to anyone or any member. People are differant some good some not so good but who are any of us to cast stones. I don't know anyone who is perfect and don't wan't to if there on this earth. John S. Biker South Side


John Silva,

Lots of good organizations have some bad people in them.

The Hells Angels, on the other hand, is a bad organization that might -theoretically- have some good people in it. But I doubt it.


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