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dan zarrella

murdering babies?
Are they bayonetting them and eating them like the belgians?

carpundit

I have no idea what you're referring to, but it's irrelevant. Yes, murdering babies. Did you follow the link?

Erik

Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.

Exodus 13:2

Is that a religion of peace?

Let's not even get into the monstrosities that christianity has wrought over the centuries.

It's religion that is antithetical to civilization.

carpundit

Erik, you know well that quoting random passages from any text can spin things any way you like. Regardless, it is now one religion that is wreaking havoc around the world. Not Hinduism, or Buddhism, or Judaism, or Christianity. It is Islam.

Even if you regret them all, you should recognize that the only the devotees of one would like to see you dead merely for the blood that flows through your veins.

The Crusades were horrible and barbaric. Like Islamism today. Only it is today, not a thousand years ago.

And, yes, Judaism is largely a religion of peace, being as it is the only one of the major monotheistics that recognizes the possibility of righteousness in followers of others.

Erik

You've got to compare religions at comparable ages. Islam is about 1300 years old

Christianty is 1900 years old (more or less). What was Christianity doing when it was 1300? Auto de fe's were common. These atrocities were committed by the nutcases

Judaism is 4000 years old. Look at the old testament for what was going on in 2500 BC. Then men at Masada (70CE) murdered their families before committing suicide

Islam awaits its Martin Luther and its reformation.

What solution would you suggest? A war on Islam is a fool's errand. Trying to force conversion leads us down the road they're on now (or look at Jews in Spain in 1492). I understand the rhetorical venom and the frustration, but what suggestion do you have that does not play directly into the hands of the islamic zealots.

Joe

Erik, if you read the Koran, there are passages far worse than those you quote from the "Old Testamant/Torah" and while the Jews and the Christians have had their periods of war and attrocity, neither of those religions have as a basic tenant the destruction of non believers. And as the CP states, we are living in the here and now, not the middle ages or the era of Masada.

I don't think anyone has a clear solution to this problem, but I believe the answer must come from within Islam, as that is the only place it would and could be accepted. A more rational and reasonable voice needs to rise up from the mob and lead the silent majority of reasonable muslims to take control of their religion and their culture.

A new prophet for Islam or just a redirection of energies. Instead of waging war, why don't they do all they can within their own communities to alieviate poverty and suffering? Why do so few profit from the wealth that oil provides? Why are Americans and other Weterners looked upon as the great Satan? The real Satan for these people, are their own leaders, including the Saudi roayl family and the Ayatolahs of Iran who keep them agitated towards the west, so that they don't focus on the situation at home.

It's easy for you to criticize the CarPundit, and for us to argue here in the free western world. The real battle, or battles need to be fought in the mosques and schools and the streets of the middle east.

And from my personal point of view, if all else fails, we could nuke the region, making it the worlds largest glass punch bowl. Then we could use Ethanol and not worry about terrorism and OPEC.

carpundit

Solutions are few, and they all involve the judicious projection of military power.

Surely, you do not suggest we sit idle while Islam matures?

Joe

CP, I don't think we should sit idle, no not by any means, I believe we should prepare ourselves for the worst. And work to encourage change, by supporting moderate muslims and applying pressure on the regimes that sponsor terror, like the Saudis. In a perfect world, they would mature over time. But the many inocent dead that would result from passively waithing for that day, must not be allowed. I for one firmly believe that the US and the rest of the Western world should be ready for one hell of a fight, and that ultimately Islam will find that moderate leader. I'm ashamed to say, that if I was on a plane, sitting near a person that seemed to be middle eastern, I would keep an eye on them and pounce at the first sign of trouble. It may seem reactionary, but most survival skills are.

I of course reaffirm my belief that if things get out of hand, we nuke them until every grain of sand is fused into glass and the remaining islamofascist are scattered and waiting in caves for Western troops to hunt them down. But again, that may seem like a reactionary point of view.

I never claimed to be a great scholar, hell I never graduated from college. I just want to live and not fear the next bunch of jihadists that may want to eliminate me, my family and friends and our entire way of life.

It's a shame really, but what can I say, on one hand I'd like to take the high road, like so many intilectuals and academics, but on the other I've become so fond of living and breathing, that I could compromise my morals to survive.

Aussie

Living next to the largest Islamic country, Indonesia, and contemplating the physical effect (ignoring politics) on the continent of Africa if the many black muslim nations, and presumably Pakistan & western China, were also "glassed over" as well as the collateral effects on Europe & Asia from overspill, I can't see 'nuking' as a particularly useful course of action. The climatic & radioactive effects would also spread to the American continent.

Note the violent aspects of Christianity aren't all that far back (indeed, from the behaviour and rhetoric of "extreme' Christians, they want them back now, just as 'extreme' Moslems do). Remember American settlers executed & tortured each other for purely religious 'crimes'. It's only been the few hundred years where it's toned down, and about the last hundred/hundred-fifty years (or less) when you might not be at least prosecuted and fined for something like blasphemy or adultery in the UK or Australia.

That's the time of my grandmother's mother, who she told me family stories about, and I have a photo of.

And Christianity didn't just "mature" with time. It has taken a great deal of work and argument and persuasion and legislative change. The current anti-evolution push shows that those who gain power and fulfilment from using the beliefs of others are "always with us" (even if the belief is politics or economics instead of a supernatural religion). A lot of violence was involved between different branchs of Christianity as well.

It's interesting to contemplate that when Europe was in a similar mode to the way that the repressive Moslem regimes are now, Art, Science & Civilization were carried on by enlightened Islamic cultures, and when Europe reached "Renaissance", they were able to benefit not only from the classical works preserved there, but from the advances made in mathematics & science, for instance.
I really hope that it might be possible to revive that kind of Islamic culture for the modern era, instead of all sides falling back into fundamentalistic conflicts. Five hundred years ago, the damage we could do to the world and each other was a lot less, now we could drag a large chunk of the Earth down with us.

Oh. the first comment refers to the atrocity stories about the Germans invading Belgium in the First World War. There's a whole lot of standard atrocity stories that get recycled from one conflict to another, like the standard calumnies about Jews, negroes, etc. They get updated sometimes, like the Kuwait story about Iraqi soldiers ripping babies out of incubators in the hospital.

abdul

hang on, hang on Joe! many people like you have claimed that there are this and that kind of verses in Quran. when they are asked where are they, they have no answer. what are the worse passages in Quran that you are refering to? if you are truthful then quote them, but keep in mind that verse should be full and with context. this is a challange for you if you are truthful.

Scandinavian Visitor

Well Abdul. The Qur'an is Online Nowadays (i.e. millions of Westerners can study this book with their own eyes)...

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/

You can't hide the truth about the creed of Mohammed. Islam is NOT a "religion of peace". It is clearly a religion of war.

Carpundit is right and you are wrong.

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