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Ron Newman

The determining factor is, was this location part of the city of Boston, or the city of Roxbury, before Roxbury annexed to Boston in 1868? It's quite close to the old boundary but I believe it was in Boston.


Well, that may be technically correct; I don't know.
But I am referring to the common usage of the terms.
I don't know anyone who calls the area west of Mass. Ave. and south of Tremont by anything other than Roxbury.


I rather enjoy living in Roxbury.

Ron Newman

I had a feeling you'd drop by here, eeka ...

Thrid Decade

That makes two of us who enjoy living in Roxbury, Eeka.


Derek, we should start a posse. We can go invade the Back Bay and, uh, um...hmm...

Third Decade

I'm happy to live in Roxbury, Eeka. They can keep the Back Bay with all those buildings built on rotting wooden pilings and cracked brick facades.


I like living there too. Sure there are some crappy parts, but there are some very nice parts too. By the way, the original boundry between Boston and Roxbury was about where Arlington St is today in the Back Bay, as in just about all of the Back Bay was once part of Roxbury. The line was moved as marshland was filled to make the Back Bay, and eventually Roxbury was annexed onto Boston, historically, all of the Back Bay and most of the South End was once part of Roxbury.


OK, OK, I walked right into that. As soon as I typed it I knew I'd be hearing from people who do, indeed, like living in Roxbury. Locals aside, I think most of my readers wouldn't like it much.

Ron Newman

The excellent MIT Press book [i]Mapping Boston[/i] reproduces many old maps of the city. On several pre-annexation maps, it's clear that Lenox Street was within the city of Boston. The boundary between Boston and Roxbury was just beyond Kendall Street, and passed either through or just south of today's Ramsay Park/Jim Rice Field.

See pages 203 (1852 map), 205 (1855 map), 207 (1862 map), and 230 (1852 map).

Beyond the geographic issue, I'm troubled by what sounds to me like a latent attitude that the shooting happened in a place that doesn't matter.


Forget the geography.

My point (which may be wrong, but it was my point) was that the Herald was sensationalizing the murder by making people think it happened in a part of the city that doesn't usually see murders. A murder in South End is different from a murder in Roxbury if only because the former is so rare and the latter so unfortunately common.

The Herald -I think- knows that, and was trying to sell papers.


I just stumbled onto this blog by googling at work, and I agree that your attitude seems to imply that the shooting doesn't matter because it was in "the ghetto." --Hurricane Katrina anyone?
I won't question the writer's knowledge of the ghetto.

As far as housing prices, have you ever driven (because of course you'd get murdered if you walked) around the Fort Hill area?

Bob Fischer

This conversation is a bit inane. The fact is, shootings happen on a regular basis in the South end and in Roxbury. In fact, they happen a LOT more in the South End than people here would like to believe (see below).

It's also a fact that shootings are routinely mis-classified. Often, they're said to happen in Roxbury when they didn't. In this case, we see the reverse. New flash, cops aren't perfect, they make mistakes.

It's also a fact that Lower Roxbury adjacent to the South End is rapidly gentrifying; and that Mass Ave is no longer the boundary line it once was. Condos south of Mass Ave are routinely advertised as being in the "South End," and their residents think of themselves as being in the South End. In any case, much of that area is now taken over by an expanding Northeastern University.

For some objective information on shootings in Boston, see the Google map mashup. Clearly, if you don't like shootings, move to JP or Allston.

And of course, ignorant judgments of Roxbury by people who have probably never set foot in the town (and haven't looked at the data) aren't helpful.


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If only the 350 cities and towns could find the same political will. We can break the back of the police unions here, if people don't chicken out.

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